Welcome to Small Enterprise Snippets, the podcast from SmallBusiness.co.uk. At this time’s visitor is Simon Woodroffe, former Dragon and founding father of YO! Sushi.
We’ll be discussing easy methods to construct rapport with purchasers and when ego works in enterprise.
Take heed to it within the media participant under.
Alternatively, you may watch the complete interview or learn the interview transcript additional down the web page.
You will discover out extra about Simon at yo.co.uk.
You too can catch our episodes with:
Mentors and authors, Bianca Miller-Cole and Byron Cole
Rugby participant and co-owner of Baffle Haus, George North
Former Rugby Union participant and founding father of Folks’s Captain beer, Greg Bateman
Scientist and The Intestine Well being Physician, Megan Rossi, and business advertising skilled, Jon Walsh – founders of Bio&Me
Entrepreneur, writer, investor and podcaster, Grace Beverley
Entrepreneur and star of SAS: Who Dares Wins, Ollie Ollerton
Enterprise proprietor and former professional footballer, Thomas Hal Robson-Kanu
Myleene Klass and Jamie Barber, founders of My Supper Hero
Pub proprietor and winner of The Nice British Bake Off, Candice Brown
Entrepreneur and former athlete, Sally Gunnell
Entrepreneur and The Apprentice winner, Sian Gabbidon
Abel & Cole founder and chairman of Freddie’s Flowers, Keith Abel
Entrepreneur and The Apprentice 2019 winner, Carina Lepore
Dragon Tej Lalvani and entrepreneur Sam Jones
Angel investor, entrepreneur and TV character, Spencer Matthews
Entrepreneur and former Dragon on Dragon’s Den Eire, Woman Chanelle McCoy
Businessman and The Apprentice winner, Mark Wright
Entrepreneur and campaigner, Paul Lindley
Managing director of Brompton Bikes, Will Butler-Adams
Businessman and writer, Gerald Ratner
Entrepreneur and TV presenter, Trinny Woodall
Pub proprietor and bartender on Channel 4’s First Dates, Merlin Griffiths
Founder and chairman of Pimlico (previously Pimlico Plumbers), Charlie Mullins
Retail skilled and former Dragon, Theo Paphitis
Writer and boardroom skilled, John Tusa
Digital guru and investor, Sherry Coutu
Entrepreneur and former Dragon, Rachel Elnaugh
Businesswoman and Dragon, Deborah Meaden
Entrepreneur and The Apprentice 2005 candidate, Tim Campbell
Gousto CEO, Timo Boldt
Entrepreneur and The Apprentice 2018 candidate, Jackie Quick
Investor and former Dragon, Piers Linney
Funding fund supervisor, Nicola Horlick
Supermodel turned entrepreneur, Caprice
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Simon Woodroffe podcast transcript
Good day everybody, and welcome to Small Enterprise Snippets, the podcast from SmallBusiness.co.uk. I’m your host, Anna Jordan. At this time now we have Simon Woodroffe. Chances are you’ll recognise him as one of many unique panellists on Dragons’ Den, in addition to the founding father of YO! Sushi.
Simon: Hello Anna. Very good to be right here.
Anna: Beautiful to have you ever. How are you doing?
Simon: I’m good. I simply flew in from Girona, within the north of Spain, the place we’re simply opening this new resort. Not YOTEL, really, however one known as Off Grid Girona, which is what it says on the can. I hope all of your viewers/listeners are going to come back and go to us.
I’m positive they’ll. Okay, so I’m simply going to dive straight in right here at present. You left Dragons’ Den after collection one since you stated that you simply didn’t like the best way that the entrepreneurs have been being handled.
You’ve additionally stated that ego is damaging in enterprise. I’d like it, to kick us off, in the event you might increase on these two issues.
Simon: I left Dragons’ Den and ego in enterprise. Look. Dragons’ Den was really a TV present in Japan and was a really sort of low story. And the BBC purchased it and reformatted it. And I bear in mind turning as much as the primary present and none of us actually knew what was going to occur, and it was filmed cinema verité, ‘as if life’.
So, there was no enhancing performed through the present. We didn’t cease alongside the best way. It was actually cinema verité. And sure, I suppose it’s true that there’s just one phrase for ‘enterprise’ on the planet, but it surely means plenty of various things. And the world that I reside in is small companies and start-up companies and all of that.
I’m actually someone who applauds anyone who goes out and does something, , who stands up and places their head above the parapet and goes and does something. And that’s why I believe folks used to say, ‘Oh, he was the great Dragon’. It was in regards to the time that, all of the music TV exhibits have been happening after which Simon Cowell was dissing everyone. I believe they [the BBC] wished it to be a bit like that for Dragons to be, actually, Dragons. And it’s not me. I used to be the great one. Did I inform them that they need to do it in another way? Realizing me at the moment, I wouldn’t have performed now, however I believe I most likely did.
I stated that they need to get higher traders. I imply, look, I’ll let you know one thing. If you wish to get actually good investments on this world, don’t go and ask the BBC. The factor folks at all times ask me is, on Dragons’ Den, give me some recommendation. ‘I’m happening Dragons’ Den, what ought to I do’?
The factor to recollect is in the event you’re going to boost cash, is that Dragons’ Den is showbusiness, it’s not enterprise. There are 5 folks sitting there and so they’re all pondering of themselves: ‘I’m wondering what my efficiency goes to be like’, fairly than ‘Am I going to get an ideal funding right here?’ So sure, I most likely did say that and don’t suppose I might do it now.
It’s their present. It’s not my present. I used to be a visitor. I used to be a contributor. And really, love them or hate them, the Dragons’ Den and Large Brother and The Apprentice and all of them. What they’ve performed, I believe, for our tradition, is to indicate folks that this stuff are doable. Enterprise isn’t that difficult.
I’m positive there are an terrible lot of individuals sitting at dwelling going, ‘I might do higher than that.’
Ego in enterprise. I’m undecided. It’s a humorous factor, ego, as a result of it’s like self-confidence. I’m right here, sitting right here with you, and I seem assured. Effectively, I hope I seem assured, And I really feel assured as a result of I do know my topics.
But it surely wasn’t at all times like that. After I began out, I bear in mind I had fairly low vanity. I didn’t, however I put the grunt work in and I received to this stage and it’s far more snug. So, do you want ego in enterprise? I believe that within the very early days of a brand new start-up enterprise, megalomaniac management, obsessive, not life-work steadiness – simply doing every part your self – is a extremely good option to get issues began.
However when you’ve received it up and working, that’s when you must again off and let different folks do issues their manner, not your manner. That’s the speculation, based on me.
How have you learnt whenever you’ve reached that time the place you’re able to let go of the reins slightly bit?
Simon: I believe when you’re able to eliminate your TV set, eliminate Instagram, flip off social media or no matter your model of that’s, and are prepared to work the 16 hours, seven days per week that an entrepreneur works. Not since you desire a pile of cash, however since you’ve received to a stage the place you’ve received obsessive about doing one thing.
I at all times say take a pocket book or a cellphone, or no matter it’s, and begin writing down issues as they happen to you and begin growing it. And by no means, ever suppose, ‘Shall I? Shan’t I? Shall I? Shan’t I? Shall I? Shan’t I?’ That’s standing on the beginning line. As an alternative put within the work of researching, and famously I’ve at all times stated to offer your self three months in the event you can presumably discover the cash to try this, to truly go and analysis one thing if it’s coming to the fore in your pocket book. On the finish of three months, almost 100 days, when you’ve got 1% enchancment a day on the finish of three months, that’s 100% enchancment, and you then’re ready to determine whether or not to do it. Even in the event you spend a bit of cash; you spend a little bit of time. You’ll be able to say no at that stage, however you’ve received to get to the purpose the place you really begin to consider in one thing.
And as soon as you might be obsessed, I believe it’s what occurred with me, then you may undergo the ache it takes to do it. In spite of everything, why would you wish to go and be an entrepreneur, which includes sleepless nights and plenty of fear and never a lot time to your mates and your loved ones that, effectively, in the event you in the event you’ve received a really good social life and also you’ve received a pleasant job, why would you wish to do this?
You’d be loopy to do it. However I believe us entrepreneurs, or individuals who go and do troublesome issues, all types of various types of individuals, however there’s at all times a bit like with the grit within the oyster, the bit chippy or offended or troublesome. Should you’re one of many troublesome ones, it’s an excellent place to be.
That’s so attention-grabbing to me, as a result of I’ve learn beforehand that you simply don’t agree with market analysis when beginning up a enterprise. Maybe the analysis that you simply do in that three-month interval is sort of like a type of market analysis, or another. What would you say to that?
Simon: It’s an excellent line, isn’t it? Throw away the advertising finances and spend all of your cash on doing one thing nice. So, that phrase of mouth, or phrase of Instagram or no matter it’s goes out and everyone takes it. And I believe there’s a degree to that. However yeah, I might just about argue the alternative of something that I say.
We reside in a world the place everyone appears to have these very exact opinions. I’m on this facet or that. I can argue the alternative of most issues. I might actually argue that you must do heaps and plenty of market analysis. So, possibly my 100 days is market analysis. However I believe folks typically do an excessive amount of, rely an excessive amount of on what the stats inform them.
And in the event you’ve received a intestine intuition – I had with sushi. I’d lived in California. I knew that fairly often fads that occur in America translate into the UK about 5 years later. I like sushi, I do know heaps of people that did, and that was sufficient for me. If I’d gone out and requested you, ‘Would you prefer to eat uncooked fish off conveyor belts with robots serving the drinks, and even sleep in a seven sq. metre room in our inns with no pure mild as a result of the window’s going through the corridors?’ that market analysis wouldn’t have stated sure. However after all, after I did it, I heard what I name the ‘magic phrases’, that are, ‘If that is so nice, why didn’t someone do that earlier than?’
Yeah, I agree. I imply, I believe there’s a tendency in enterprise to play it a bit protected, like I’m a vegetarian. And in the event you exit for a sandwich, you’re principally restricted to egg and cress or falafel and hummus.
I suppose it’s about taking these dangers however measuring these dangers and the way you differentiate between the 2, what’s a calculated threat and what’s only a bit daft.
Simon: I by no means actually thought I used to be a threat taker, and clearly, I used to be. I put every part I had, which wasn’t an ideal deal, in 1997. I put every part that I had on the road, and I suppose for 90 per cent of the time I actually believed it, and for five per cent I wobbled and for five per cent was sheer terror.
Clearly, I used to be a threat taker, however I used to be fairly wise. I’ve at all times been fairly wise. This was no type of, ‘Let’s simply give it a go. To hell with it. Let’s simply do it’. I crossed each ‘T’, dotted each ‘I’, and finally received to the stage the place I believed, effectively, look, even when I lose every part, I a lot wish to see this factor that’s in my thoughts come to fruition that I’m going to do it anyway.
I see numerous the youthful folks now who’re beginning web firms or no matter they’re, and so they’re a gaggle of people that have a collective unconscious, in the event you like, the place all of them wish to see this occur and so they’re prepared to place every part on the road. The youthful you do it, the extra restoration time you’ve received and the extra dangers you may take.
I by no means met the one that went out to do what they actually dreamed of doing after they had that obsession and regretted it, no matter whether or not they succeeded or failed. Due to course, in the event you do fail, you’ve realized an terrible lot, and the subsequent time you’re going to be higher at it.
It’s an excellent training. However I met lots of people who later in life appeared again and stated, ‘You understand, I want I’d taken extra dangers after I was youthful and put my head above the parapet and tried issues out. It could have been a extra attention-grabbing life.’
Anna: That’s apparently one of many high regrets of the dying, from what I perceive.
Simon: I didn’t know that that’s, that’s the factor researched. Yeah, it’s the well-known, ‘I want I had spent extra time within the workplace.’ That’s the factor, isn’t it?
If we’re trying in sensible phrases, that 100 days you’ve received there, you’re bettering by 1% every day. Give us some sensible examples of what that may appear to be.
Simon: Forged my thoughts again to the start of Challenge YO! Sushi. All of the meals was out within the open, so we needed to take care of well being and security folks. We needed to take care of hearth folks as a result of we have been cooking within the open, as a result of all of the kitchens have been on the market. Folks stated that you simply put meals on the conveyor belts and persons are going to pay by the variety of plates you’ve gotten on the finish of the meal.
Individuals are going to steal the plates, all of these issues. After all, too, after I first began, it was pre-internet. You couldn’t actually analysis. And I’ve some very costly cellphone calls to Japan, and certainly to the Japanese embassy, which was actually fairly so flabbergasted, a bit like asking the English embassy the place you can begin a fish and chip store right here to occur.
I went to Japan and I did the analysis in the long run, however that these issues have been all taking dangers and, you would say 1% a day, but it surely’s actually it’s little by little, attending to know extra. Dotting the ‘I’s, crossing the ‘T’s, you get to know extra.
You’re speaking to folks. And I say whenever you’re speaking to folks, be quiet sufficient to actually take heed to what persons are saying and don’t say, ‘No, no, no, no, they’re there. You’re fallacious, you’re fallacious.’ You wish to hear every part folks have gotten to say. And you then filter it because it is available in.
Some goes within the garbage bin, some is beneficial, some is put apart that could possibly be used in a while. It’s simply attending to know your topics and what it’s and all of the issues that would occur. And I believe one other factor is that whenever you do see a glitch fairly than glossing over it
to place your hand deep into your pockets and pull out the issue and really take a look at it in an even bigger manner. And I believe that what you’re additionally attempting to do, is attempting to visualise what will probably be like, for instance, what will probably be like on the primary day that you simply launch your product, no matter that’s. As a result of in the event you can’t visualise it, it’s most likely not going to occur.
And also you’ve received to visualise why folks wish to come and get what you’re providing. And to make that as enticing as you may. And the longer you go on, funnily sufficient, in Spain, the place we’re opening this new resort Off Grid Girona. He was saying the opposite day, it’s wonderful, each time I begin doing one thing or placing one of many elements of the expertise in place and doing the rooms up and doing the increase, he stated, ‘Each time I pause and suppose, I’m not fairly positive about that and wait and wait and wait, there’s at all times an answer comes up.’ And one among my issues is there’s a resolution to every part on this world.
You’ve simply received to search out it. No matter troublesome predicament you would be in at any level, nonetheless caught you might be in your life. Nonetheless not sure you might be of the place to go subsequent. Most issues, in the event you do nothing, go away. Should you maintain in search of options, most issues go away. You don’t need to do something about them.
An instance of that’s, , in the event you look again over the belongings you apprehensive about final week or final month or final yr, you may’t even bear in mind what they have been.
Anna: Sure.
Simon: There are different issues that require large and quick motion, and it’s figuring out which of them you must take motion on and which of them you may let fade away.
You’ve talked about studying loads from Japanese tradition, and fairly than the type of ‘go, go, go’, make each choice in a short time. There’s a tradition in enterprise in Japan the place they’ve, you stated, seven conferences. They get to speak to one another, they get to find out how different folks work, what their traits are, strengths and weaknesses and so forth.
Particularly in at present’s enterprise world, it’s fairly a distinction.
Simon: Sure. In Japan, what you’re speaking about, they name it nemawashi. It’s the artwork of forming rapport with the individual you’re speaking to. After all, in America, you go to a gathering, they go, ‘Okay, Simon, so what’s the deal?’ The English are terribly over well mannered, however, I like the thought of truly simply constructing extra rapport.
Enterprise is comparatively easy. Getting your self, for the people who find themselves pondering of beginning one thing or the early stage, getting your self prepared, getting your self in an excellent place so that you’re snug with your self, you’re snug what you’re doing, and in addition your interpersonal relationships with folks. Enterprise is straightforward.
It’s folks that’s exhausting and the toughest individual
Anna: Is your self.
Simon: Is your self. So, I believe the preparation for enterprise shouldn’t be a lot on a spreadsheet and even on a marketing strategy, however it’s getting your self prepared. And other people say, ‘How do I get began?’ So typically I’ve heard folks say, ‘We’re nonetheless writing the marketing strategy’. And I do know you assist folks do enterprise plans, and it’s essential to try this, however they’re simply creativeness, they’re nothing to do with actuality.
There have been a few factors I actually liked there. It made me consider how within the den whenever you gave folks suggestions that you simply wouldn’t give now, and maybe that was possibly your ego. And earlier than you knew your self higher, that possibly you have been giving recommendation that you simply wouldn’t give now. But additionally, this piece in regards to the altering world of enterprise, and also you’ve thrived by forming relationships and getting in contact with folks.
And I believe in any enterprise that’s completely stable and completely key. However possibly the factor that’s modified is the folks that you simply’re trying to converse to, possibly having much less time, much less power, much less capability, to, I suppose, provide help to in the best way that you simply’re in search of. What would you say to that?
Simon: I bear in mind saying to myself when folks didn’t reply my cellphone calls, after I was attempting to get in contact with folks. I believed if I ever get into that state of affairs, which I’m in now, I might at all times return folks’s calls. And so far, with a little bit of assist from my mates, and other people I work with, I do reply to everyone who writes to me and that’s an absolute pleasure to have the ability to do this, insofar as I may be of any assist. I believe everyone’s received to search out their very own manner. And we hear loads that manner about youngsters having an excessive amount of social media. And everyone’s get tied up in simply sending emails. One of many issues that I’ve realized on this world is to do in another way to what everyone else is doing, easy methods to stand out within the crowd, do it in another way.
There’s no person who doesn’t like being flattered, listened to, informed that they’re attention-grabbing. And I believe one of many issues I’ve realized is I believed that you simply needed to simply speak loads in the event you have been the chief of one thing. And as I’ve received older, I discover that the extra you pay attention, the quieter you might be and the much less you say, the extra folks pay attention to each phrase.
So, no matter your glitches – and also you already know what the glitches are – I recommend, take into consideration training behaving in another way to how you’d usually behave and simply see what reactions you get when that occurs.
This feeds into one among my different questions. So, whenever you have been a roadie for numerous rock acts, so that you left faculty with a few O-levels. One of many greatest adjustments we’ve seen within the enterprise world and within the wider world is very large competitors, competing not solely with folks regionally however globally, having to have {qualifications} for jobs that historically didn’t have {qualifications}.
If someone finds themselves in the identical place now that you simply have been then, what recommendation would you give them about growing a profession and beginning a enterprise?
Simon: Effectively, in the event you’re going to be an airline pilot or a mind surgeon, please, please go to college to get skilled correctly. However in the event you’re not, enterprise is comparatively easy. I’m a giant fan of a man known as Felix Dennis, who wrote a e-book known as How one can Be Wealthy. And he additionally wrote a poem, which I’ll do for you simply rapidly.
I believe it actually says all of it. It says how easy enterprise is. You’re the troublesome bit. So, this goes:
Concepts we’ve had ‘emSince Eve first met AdamBut take it from meExecution’s the keyGood fortuneThe reality isThe extra that you simply sweatThe tougher you workThe luckier you get
The moneyGo discover a probably investor to get what you needYou toady to greedThe talentGo discover itBut first wine and dine itIt’s tedious workWith a proficient jerkTo win itYou’ve received to be in itBut by no means be late to give up and lower baitExpansion is vanityProfit is sanityOverhead begs and it walks on two legs
Step one simply do it and bluff your manner by itRemember to duckGodspeed and good luck
And in the event you’ve received an thought. Don’t go to college. Don’t go and get coaching. I imply, not least since you’re most likely going to be forward after three years; you’re going to be forward of your compatriots by way of road life and really being out doing issues.
You’re going to be £50,000 higher off and, you’re going to be in it. Get on the market, do no matter it’s worthwhile to do – over-deliver. Take into consideration what you are able to do for them, not what folks can do for you. That took me a very long time to grasp, that thought course of. What can I do for others fairly than what can they do for me?
Go on the market and do this, you are able to do that in the event you’re going to work for someone. However you must save up slightly bit of cash. And that requires not having a lot pleasure. When issues are troublesome, whenever you’re out of your consolation zone, really, it’s not a foul place to be.
We’re skilled that, after we’re feeling uncomfortable, that we rapidly get again to a spot the place we really feel snug once more. However stand exterior it, be uncomfortable for a interval. An inexpensive time period is what profitable folks do. The pebble dropped into the water. The ripples exit and also you get extra snug in a troublesome world or with troublesome issues.
One thing that does make folks really feel a bit uncomfortable, relying on the place you stand on it, is AI and its emergence. I’ve learn in one other interview that you simply like sticking to enterprise the place you’re working with bodily creations. How has that been influenced by AI (if in any respect)? What position does AI play in driving innovation?
Simon: Effectively, I imply, I’m keen about this new world that we’re going to reside in and what’s going to occur with AI and all the remainder. I simply occur to have performed the alternative when everyone was going on the web. I went and did bodily issues. I might need a principle to do the alternative to everyone else, that there’s much less competitors.
However I believe that AI and all the remainder of it, what it’s going to do for a kick-off is it’s going to deliver monumental wealth into the world, however on the identical time, it’s going to place not simply the people who find themselves struggling on the backside of the society, however huge swathes of individuals within the center, out of a job.
How we as a society reshape ourselves in order that the wealth that that brings into the world, that AI brings into the world, could possibly be extra pretty distributed throughout the entire world to have. I believe in 100 years’ time, folks will look again and say that that they had that disparity of wealth between the very wealthy and the very poor.
I can see some sort of type of common wage coming in so that individuals can nonetheless have imaginative and prescient and keenness and do issues on this world. I believe chances are you’ll say that I’m a dreamer, however I’m not the one one. And I believe that the world in 100 years might be a fully wonderful place, as a result of we’ll be fixing all the issues that we see.
Have a look at the wars which can be occurring in the intervening time and the shoots of attainable options. However the realisation amongst so many individuals, that it’s simply so old style, having wars. I’ll let you know what I’m ready for. I’m ready for the glasses, that are the precursor to having implants.
Anna: The Google Glass kind factor?
Effectively, I might sit and speak about this all day. However sadly, we do need to wrap up there. However earlier than we go, there was a theme that runs all through your social media content material and the Guide of YO!, and working all through this podcast episode, too.
What ideas do you’ve gotten for small companies listening or watching about, dare I say, self-mastery or actually attending to know your self?
Simon: Go surfing and skim the Guide of YO! Learn my new autobiography when it comes out subsequent yr, YO! Man. Go and study and take heed to different folks, filter what is available in, take what you want and depart the remainder. And study to be a greater individual. And when you do this, folks love to do enterprise with folks they like and belief.
You’ll be able to solely be trustable in the event you belief your self. So, take a look at your self first earlier than you take a look at different folks.
Anna: Effectively, that’s a superb notice to finish on. Thanks a lot for approaching, Simon. Thanks and thanks for watching. We’ll see you subsequent time.
